Curse

Baratus · May 16, 2008, 09:31 PM // 21:31

Alright, I went out and bought my old 55 smiter a second set of Droknar's gear for healing groups. I got the gear and have already been the lone healer on several tough missions, such as the infusion mission and the two prior to it, and have faired well. Now however, I want to rune up my new gear, and I am not sure exactly how. Most spells I use right now are healing, with one or two protection spells. My current build has divine favor and healing maxed, and the rest in protection. Below are the few builds I have considered and would like feedback on.

Superior Healing, Superior Protection, Minor Divine
Superior Healing, Minor Protection, Superior Divine
Superior Healing, Major Protection, Minor Divine
Superior Healing, Minor Protection, Minor Divine
Major Healing, Major Protection, Major Divine
Major Healing, Minor Protection, Major Divine
Major Healing, Major Protection, Minor Divine

So what configuration would perform better for healing and running end-game missions? I am leaning towards The first, second, and fifth builds listed above, but I am torn on which to use. I want to be able to heal large groups and by switching gear, go solo anywhere mesmers don't roam. Ideas or suggestions?

Koricen · May 16, 2008, 09:35 PM // 21:35

In my builds I don't mix between healing/protection, so I just have a Minor Divine and swap out my headpiece for whichever I'm doing. But if you do like having a couple protection skills then I suggest Sup Healing/Min Divine/Min Protection.

absolutcrobi · May 16, 2008, 09:38 PM // 21:38

I would not go more than one superior, i would say superior helaing, healing head tatoo, lower your divine rank by one point andput the remaining atterib points into protection, then use a minor protection rune. Then get the biggest vigor you can afford, then energy up the rest(vitae and radiant)

Yichi · May 16, 2008, 09:51 PM // 21:51

Minor Healing rune + headpiece
Minor divine rune on survivor armor
Minor prot rune on survivor armor
Sup vigor on survivor armor
Vitae rune on survivor armor

Yoshikuni Mahsu · May 16, 2008, 09:59 PM // 21:59

Minor Divine, Minor Healing, Minor Prot.

Major/Sup = BAD BAD BAD unless your running some sort of gimmick

For builds its generally 12 heal/10 prot/8 divine for a hybrid healer:
[skill]WoH[/skill] Self explanatory
[skill]Patient Spirit[/skill] or [skill]Dwayna's Kiss[/skill], a backup heal
[skill]Dismiss Condition[/skill] Condi Removal
[skill]Remove Hex[/skill] Basic Hex Removal, Holy Veil is much better for pvp and Cure Hex for the obvious Heal
[skill]Protective Spirit[/skill] Basic Prot spell. Staple of pve, helps with the big dmg bosses, taking Spirit Bond and putting this on another hero is a option as well

The rest are mostly optional, if you're even half decent at PvP take [skill]Guardian[/skill], it can save alot of energy if used right, same with [skill]Shield of Absorption[/skill] and [skill]Shielding Hands[/skill]

[skill]Glyph of Lesser Energy[/skill] for easy E - management.

Obviously theres many options for each slot, but most bars you run should have the basic template of:
Big Heal spell
Backup heal spell
Hex Removal
Condition removal
General-Use prot

I personally run alot of prot, because prot is my lover <3, and if used right its better than straight up healing.

MasterSasori · May 17, 2008, 11:49 PM // 23:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yichi

Minor Healing rune + headpiece
Minor divine rune on survivor armor
Minor prot rune on survivor armor
Sup vigor on survivor armor
Vitae rune on survivor armor

QFT

12 char.

Hundbert · May 18, 2008, 09:30 PM // 21:30

The only time i can picture the major/superior runes beeing worth using might be in a spike build or to reach a certain breakpoint.
For example [skill]Weapon of fury[/skill] at 15 channeling for 50% more adrenaline.

angmar_nite · May 18, 2008, 10:52 PM // 22:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yichi

Minor Healing rune + headpiece
Minor divine rune on survivor armor
Minor prot rune on survivor armor
Sup vigor on survivor armor
Vitae rune on survivor armor

Autograph pl0x?

the ruloes · May 19, 2008, 01:45 PM // 13:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yichi

Minor Healing rune + headpiece
Minor divine rune on survivor armor
Minor prot rune on survivor armor
Sup vigor on survivor armor
Vitae rune on survivor armor

This.

Giving yourself a lot of health will prevent you form getting monkstomped by all the high-hitters. This difference between running 1 sup vs. without 1 sup is simply enormous. Furthermore, it's a lot easier to monk when you don't have to constantly kite, prot yourself and whatnot.

The extra 2 in the attribute is simply not worth it.

Bront · May 20, 2008, 12:59 AM // 00:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yoshikuni Mahsu

Minor Divine, Minor Healing, Minor Prot.

Major/Sup = BAD BAD BAD unless your running some sort of gimmick

Not nessessarily.

Major/Sup = Bad unless you're a great monk and can deal with the lower HP.

Note: There are quite a few people who are not great monks, myself included, so it's a risk. I have run with it in PvE, but not in the harder locations of PvE, and only because a Sup rune dropped for me.

Generaly, on a hybred build, you go 11, 10, 10, either healing, prot, df, or prot, healing, DF. The +1 headgear tends to be healing, so you end up with 12-13 healing, 11-12 prot, and 11 DF.

If you go Sup rune, it should usually be healing, and then you put the 11 in prot, so you end up with 14 Healing, 12 Prot, 11 DF. This gives you a little more healing punch, and 12 prot is a good number for several protection spells.

Sups should always go on the headgear, since that is often what gets swaped out for other builds anyway (if you don't keep full sets of armor for other things)

Beyond that, get the biggest Vitality rune you can (I personally would buy a 30, and wait for bigger ones to drop, but it depends on your cash flow, but you can do better with your money than the extra 11 or 20 HP that the major/sup runes provide, like a full set of survivor or vitea), Vitea on the remaining armor, and survivor runes on the rest of your armor

Radients/Attunements aren't that great, but one or two won't kill you if you need the energy and are playing PvE, but you're better off weapon swamping if you need extra energy in PvP.

XDeadboltX · May 20, 2008, 03:48 PM // 15:48

What are peoples opinions on running the 20% less daze/deep wound rune, instead of a vitae one. I play RA so Id rather have that than +10 hp.

Damian979 · May 20, 2008, 05:29 PM // 17:29

first of all, I only started my monk 2 weeks ago, so I am in no way, shape or form saying my skills are superior to anything. But since then I have taken the monk thru factions, eotn, and can do every major run in proph short of drok's. I use major div on scalp, minor heal, minor vig (im cheap:P) all the rest attune and radiant. I prefer the emphasis on DF for the all around benefit of healing (add 48hp at 15 DF) making even orison of healing a decent heal. Add healer's boon and the wimpy OoH turns into about 143hp of healing every 2 sec for 5 en. Weap of choice...The yakslapper, 20% ench, red. deep wound,HRS 20% +15 en, +30hp (and imo not the best staff but can't beat the name

). This leaves me with 475 hp, and 56 energy. I generally use a Mo/me WoH/vig spirit/heal breeze(yes i like healing breeze w/ a +ench mod) build, or HB spammer w/ Dwayna's kiss, WoComfort, orison. Divine healing and heaven's delight(dup skills) for cheapo group healing, and arc echo/divine intervention if i know there are going to be large damage melee/spikers(Indestructible Golem) that will smack someone down in one hit.

Tyla · May 20, 2008, 05:44 PM // 17:44

Errr....wouldn't it be better using PSpirit instead of wasting 20 energy on DI and Echo?

Anyway, go all minors, run highest in the attribute you're running, run heal straight away skills or Patient Spirit.
And lose the radiants, and bring a high energy set.

Damian979 · May 20, 2008, 06:56 PM // 18:56

K, just did a little testing on Patient Spirit, maybe not as bad as I originally thought, will have to give that some PvP attention

*buries head*

deya · May 20, 2008, 07:26 PM // 19:26

There's should be no reason at all to run anything but minors on monk. (sup vigor doh)

Bront · May 21, 2008, 01:43 AM // 01:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by Damian979

first of all, I only started my monk 2 weeks ago, so I am in no way, shape or form saying my skills are superior to anything. But since then I have taken the monk thru factions, eotn, and can do every major run in proph short of drok's. I use major div on scalp, minor heal, minor vig (im cheap:P) all the rest attune and radiant. I prefer the emphasis on DF for the all around benefit of healing (add 48hp at 15 DF) making even orison of healing a decent heal. Add healer's boon and the wimpy OoH turns into about 143hp of healing every 2 sec for 5 en. Weap of choice...The yakslapper, 20% ench, red. deep wound,HRS 20% +15 en, +30hp (and imo not the best staff but can't beat the name

). This leaves me with 475 hp, and 56 energy. I generally use a Mo/me WoH/vig spirit/heal breeze(yes i like healing breeze w/ a +ench mod) build, or HB spammer w/ Dwayna's kiss, WoComfort, orison. Divine healing and heaven's delight(dup skills) for cheapo group healing, and arc echo/divine intervention if i know there are going to be large damage melee/spikers(Indestructible Golem) that will smack someone down in one hit.

Here's the thing on DF over Heal.

DF is 3.2 hp bonus per cast, so if you compaire DF of 15 (headgear plus major) vs DF of 13 (Minior), you lose 7 HP per cast.

Meanwhile, Heal of 15 vs 13 gives you: [[patient spirit] gives you 12 extra, [[Word of Healing] gives you either 17 or 28 extra, heck [[orison of healing] gives you the same 7 more, and [[Dwayna's kiss] gives you 6+3/hex or enchant more. If you're using Healer's Boon, all these numbers are increased by 50% (your DF bonus is not).

The only time I could possibly see pushing DF over Healing is in a hybred build, where you get the extra DF healing on protection spells, and you're not talking about a hybred build, but a pure healer.

As for patient spirit, it combines well with Dwayna's kiss, offers a big heal in general, and you get some heal out of DF when casting it as well. I've moved to using Kiss more particularly in hex heavy areas and on a hybred monk, but Patient Spirit is quite nice to have.

Yoshikuni Mahsu · May 21, 2008, 02:00 AM // 02:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by Damian979

I use major div ... attune and radiant

Health > Energy.
Why?

You control you're energy. You can make sure you dont run out.
You cant control the damage you take, enemies do. If you run low on energy you can go "Oh, im crapping energy, better stop." if you run low on HP the enemy likely wont do that. Also as stated by many before me: 0 energy means you're useless for a few seconds until you regen for another cast. 0 hp means you're dead, useless till the end of battle or until an ally has to waste time and energy to res you, and you get DP.

Any decent monk can keep energy up maintaining 4 people (or 8 with a partner of course) while having low max energy. Ugh, hate to sound mean, but you sound like such a stereotypical PvE monk, I hate to say.

Bront · May 21, 2008, 02:52 AM // 02:52

Yoshi speaks the truth, and I feel shamed that I didn't address that too.

[gole] and [divine spirit] are your friends.

Damian979 · May 21, 2008, 04:02 PM // 16:02

Lol, ahh I have just have one more "stereotypical" response then I'm done w/ this topic. I didn't start a new topic saying "My monk sucks help me", I was posting a suggestion on what works very well for ME. In all fairness I will try swapping my DF scalp for healing as I'm all for suggestions and CONSTRUCTIVE criticism. The elitist "you don't know what you are doing b/c you aren't doing what I'm doing" attitude I can do w/out. However it's not a matter of opinion but a fact that a healer's only job is to heal and if you aren't "crapping energy" you aren't healing, and if you aren't healing, you are one step away from leeching(or at the very least just pissing off your team).0 en=0 hp if you are the healer and you can't heal regardless of how much hp you have. If you can't "crap energy" in any caster class w/ out proper managing your best bet is to leave the wands and staves alone and focus on melee. I am not concerned at all w/ sacrificing 35hp for the sake of more effective skills, if it ever does become an issue (and w/ less than 10 total deaths in 2 1/2 campaigns between groups and myself, it hasn't) I will go beat hell's w/ yet another char and get a +60 staff. As I said in my first post I am by no means saying "I'm the best monk, do as I do and nothing else".

blackknight1337 · May 21, 2008, 05:36 PM // 17:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by Damian979

However it's not a matter of opinion but a fact that a healer's only job is to heal and if you aren't "crapping energy" you aren't healing, and if you aren't healing, you are one step away from leeching(or at the very least just pissing off your team).0 en=0 hp if you are the healer and you can't heal regardless of how much hp you have. If you can't "crap energy" in any caster class w/ out proper managing your best bet is to leave the wands and staves alone and focus on melee. I am not concerned at all w/ sacrificing 35hp for the sake of more effective skills, if it ever does become an issue (and w/ less than 10 total deaths in 2 1/2 campaigns between groups and myself, it hasn't) I will go beat hell's w/ yet another char and get a +60 staff.

You have a good attitude about changing if there is something better, which is good. However, you have a couple flawed ideas here.

First, the job as monk is not to "crap heals". Selective prots mitigate much of the damage, even in HM with off-monk support, and WoH on a 40/40 set cleans up the rest. I'm completely ignoring the popular HB monks used for ursan runs now, because that is a horrible way of learning to monk, and by and large is only suited to those groups. HB monks = spam, spam,spam. I've actually been kicked for having prot spirit on my bar for a HB group, that might show you how stupid some ursan groups are. Monking is about knowing what your enemy is doing, and using the correct skill to counter it. So if that level 30 warrior boss is heading toward olias, you throw prot spirit on olias.

10 deaths among party in 2+ campaigns means nothing if its in NM. I'd be willing to bet you had multiple monks in your party....and btw I've solo monked much of the game in NM. Once you get into HM, you'll notice a couple things. You might survive a while with under 500hp, but you will get absolutely trained by groups cause none of the bars you mentioned have prot thats useful at all. Optimized equipment (proper armor setups, shield set, high set, etc.) makes HM much much easier. And if you want a prayer of getting into pvp, better practice now with what you'll have to use then.

Arcane echo + divine intervention is absolutely terrible. 25 energy for 2 uses every 30 seconds at best. On top of that, its only effective on one hit, if that ele boss spell hits you first, and then his grunts get to you, you won't live even if you have divine intervention on you. Get out of the mindset that prot spells require a completely different monk. Hybrid monks are the best for human monks no contest, and carefully built builds are best on heroes as well.
Prot spirit gets plenty of duration at 10-11 prot, requires 1 slot instead of 2, costs less energy for equal usage, and is far more effective. And 10-11 in prot (with a minor rune) gives you plenty of benefit from things like guardian, rof, dismiss, and others.

And please, lay off the superior/major runes. Those have their place, in farming, and the occasional gimmick. I can remember monking HM Kathandrax with this idiot that thought 2 superior runes was the greatest idea in the game. He died probably 25 times in the dungeon, through ursan and some random consumables, and blamed me and the other monk for it. We ended up not healing him, because he died almost instantly, and he would leeroy all the time. If you monk in HM, and in ursan groups, 500 hp is a horrible idea, you will be targeted first, and your bars have little in them that will be able to keep you alive.

Also, a 60hp staff won't solve your problems. Its a waste of more efficient mods (shield set, high set, 40/40, 20/20/20 prot staff) and gains less than what your runes take off. Minor runes, and survivor insignia are king for monking - end of story. I've done almost nothing else but play on a monk for the last year, with extensive HM experience, and there is nothing like running a 640 hp monk and sitting in a shield set, mobs barely touch you. If you run low on your 35 energy, 72 energy is just a click away.

Theres a sticky on these forums with lots of monk builds. It would be a good idea to go and find a few that look good and try them out. I think with a better build and better equipment and some time to learn, you'll be much more effective as a monk.

Hope the half hour it took me to write this was worth it, now go out and get equipped right.